BAS RUTTEN - MORE POTENT THAN EVER

The other week I was watching the MTV Music Awards (yes, past KFed's babbies mamma shuffling her ass around the stage) and thought it was kinda funny when they announced some sorta new hardware called, the "Quadruple Threat of the Year". Justin Timberlake got the nod, but the funny thing, every nominee had the exact same resume. They sung, danced, owned a clothing line, maybe fronted a restaurant. It was pretty much the same shit and outside of being able to sing, the rest was probably stuff they just threw their name on (see Krusty the Klown).

So although that MTV trophy coulda gone to JT, or Beyonce, or Kayne or whoever else (don't think anyone really cared who got it or argued one over the other), mirror that to MMA, and there really is only one choice. El Guapo! Yeah that's right, the self proclaimed most handsome man (El Guapo means the 'handsome one' in Spanish) in MMA, Bas Rutten.

He's done it all… literally. A pro thai boxer, a pro free fighter, a pro MMA fighter, an MMA comedian, a trainer, a coach, a promoter, a teacher, a video-instructor-turned-online-cult-hit, a commentator, an actor… shit, the man's a legend and outside of curing cancer, Bas has done it all (but cancer, what your f'n back cuz Bas is far from done).

Rutten, who has a ground breaking documentary, POTENT, coming out in the very near future, sat down with Triumph MMA Editor Paul Tutka and told him why only pussies own pit-bulls, why only about half the guys in the game belong in the sport, why Pride guys are struggling in the US and why steroid users are the most insecure people in MMA.

Put the women and children to bed, cuz Bas is one the loose and didn't hold back…

Paul Tutka: How's it goin' Bas?

Bas Rutten: Good, good man. Just finished up some training with Kimbo, had some lunch and now I'm all yours. I'm perfect man.

PT: Although you've pretty much done it all in this biz, you started out as a thai boxer in Holland, right?

BR: Yeah man, that's where I started, you're right.

PT: Rumor has it you rifled off a 14-0 start to you career, but ran into a bit of a wall. What's the story?

BR: Yeah man, I was doing so well in thai boxing that it was hard to find anyone that would fight me. There were three times where I was scheduled to fight and then the guys didn't show up. So I was training for nothing. At that point I was just like, I'm not gonna do this anymore. I concentrated on being a bouncer, which I could make good money at, and not waste time training for a fight only to have the guy back out.

When you bounce you always go out after and go to all the parties too. It's not really the cleanest lifestyle, but hey, that's what I did. Anyways, one of those nights was New Year's Eve and I was really, really drunk. The thai boxing promoter was there that night and apparently asked me if I wanted to fight Frank Lobman. This guy had a ridiculous record; something like 60 wins almost all by KO. He was a great boxer and also just got released from prison. Apparently I said I'd do it and like a month later I'm getting a phone call from the guy asking, "Where do I send the posters to?" And I was like, "Um, what posters?"

Anyways, apparently I agreed to this thing and only had a couple weeks to get ready. In my first workout I could barely get through skipping rope. I was really out of shape for the fight and needless to say, I lost.

Then I started getting all this heat from people about how I should be training, kinda like Chuck Liddell is getting from everyone now. I was basically being told I was overrated. I guess everyone forgot about my 13 first round KO's and my one second round KO, but whatever. I basically gave up thai boxing if people in Holland were gonna treat me like that.

PT: From there you started doing these crazy martial arts comedy routines during different martial arts tournaments. And although comedy and martial arts wasn't really done that much up til then, you and your partner, really made it work. How'd you come up with that?

BR: I'm always looking for new ways to entertain people, plus I really love different forms of comedy. I have the highest respect for standup comedians, I think it would be a real cool job. After giving up thai boxing, I still really wanted to do something in martial arts. So me and my buddy, Joris Boon, started doing these martial arts shows to music at nightclubs. We'd be doing all these crazy kicks and flips all while breakdancing and people loved it. We were using nun-chucks and breaking concrete blocks and of course breakdancing. Then we started putting in a bit of comedy into it. Like at the end, we would pretend something was going to go wrong, but the people picked up that it was a setup and they were really dying from laughing so hard. People were raving about us and we ended up doing European tours. We went form nightclubs, to Dutch TV, to European TV and then we were traveling all over Europe. People liked the comedy parts the best, so we turned it over into a complete comedy martial arts show.

PT: Do you ever talk to Joris anymore?

BR: You know, we never really stayed in touch. Actually, I approached Pride at one point with us doing this show between fights, but I guess they weren't interested cuz they never asked me about it again. I think people woulda loved it though.

PT: You spent some time in RINGS in Holland too? How'd that shakedown?

BR: Yeah, I went to RINGS around then. The guy that ran RINGS, Chris Dolman, came to me and was really impressed with all the acrobatic stuff I was doing in our comedy routines. He asked me if I'd be interested in doing free fighting, which is what MMA was considered back then So I started going to RINGS' classes and got beat-up pretty bad to start. I thought I'd be more than conditioned enough to do it, but all these little guys were choking the shit outta me! I thought my windpipes could handle these guys, but they just worked me over real bad. I was going home, which was like a two hour drive, and I was in real rough shape. I got beat-up so bad. I pulled my car over at one point cuz I was so distraught and out of it. I couldn't believe what had happened to me. So I pulled over, called my wide and told her I'd be sleeping in my car on the side of the road. After I slept it off and came home the next day, my wife started laughing at me and was like, "So this is the end of your free fighting experience?" And I said no. I told her to give me three months and I'd start beating all those guys that choked me out. So I trained my ass off and sure enough, I started beating those guys. It was at that time that Dolman called me and said that there were some guys at his gym from a new organization called, PANCRASE. He told me I had to come down.

PT: So we all now that you blew it up in PANCRASE. So I assume the boys from PANCRASE liked your style?

BR: Yeah, it was Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki at the gym. One of the champions from RINGS really put the pressure on me there. He wanted to show off to the camera crews that were there and show everyone how great he was, but the only thing the camera crews got was him getting taken to the hospital after I kicked him in the head and busted him open for some stitches. All Funaki and Suzuki said was, "We want him." Six weeks later I was in Japan and it was the greatest thing ever.

PT: So how fast did they throw you in the ring?

BR: They had me fighting right away. I had no idea what the hell I was doing. I went into my first fight and this guy was like 45 pounds heavier than me. There were no weight classes back then. But I put him (Ryushi Yanagisawa) in a two day coma and that was it. He was such a nice guy, so I felt pretty bad, but my first fight in PANCRASE went pretty well I guess. And before the fight I asked them, "How many rounds are there," and they said, "Just one." I was thinking that'd be pretty cool but when I asked how long a round was, they said 30 minutes and at that point I was wondering what they hell I had gotten myself into. I'm used to fighting a guy that is five, maybe ten pounds different than me, but here I am in Japan, fighting half hour fights against guys that are 45 pounds bigger than me! But I beat this guy in like 40 seconds and it all took off from there. I was leaving my hotel the next day and the Japanese people were bowing to me, waving to me, getting me to hold their babies in pictures. There was this picture of me in the newspaper knocking out Yanagisawa and it was instant fame overnight. It was so crazy.

PT: And then after an amazing career in PANCRASE, you had two legendary fights in UFC. How'd you hook up with them?

BR: Well they came looking for me. I had beaten guys like Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Maurice Smith, all these guys that were champions in the UFC. So of course they wanted the PANCRASE champion that had beaten all these guys. I also really wanted to get into acting and entertainment, which is why I first moved to the US. I thought people would know who I was and that I'd be recognized right away. I was wrong. Really only the hardcore fighting fans knew who I was. So my buddy kept telling me that everyone knew the UFC and if I fought there I would become pretty well known. So that's how I hooked up with the UFC. I also have to say that I always wanted to come into a fight with that UFC music they always had. You know the one, "Da, Da, Da, dada!" That theme music was so cool and I just had to come to the ring at least once with that playing in the background.

PT: You look at a lot of the guys in the sport now and when you ask them what was that one thing that got them into this sport, they all will blurt out Royce Gracie. But few realize that while Royce was doing his thing in the US, you were doing it at the exact same time in Japan. So what was it that pushed you into this whole industry? Guessing it's not Royce though, right?

BR: You know what it was for me? It was back in the gym and those 170 pounds guys were choking me out and beating the crap outta me. That's what pushed me. What if I got into a street fight with a guy like this? I needed to know how to beat this kind of fighter. I started taekwondo and realized it was really only kicks. Then I started karate and although there were both kicks and punching, there was no punching to the face. So then I started doing thai boxing so I could hit a guy in the face. And then from there free fighting and so on and so on. I always wanted to just keep pushing myself to be the most complete, well rounded fighter I could be. I wanted to be a real fighter. A boxer only knows boxing. He's a boxer, not a real fighter. A thai boxer doesn't know submissions, so he's a thai boxer, but not a true fighter. To me, a real fighter is a guy that does everything. And basically, I wanted to know how to do everything so I could consider myself a real fighter.

PT: For a guy that's dominated in both a ring and cage, why do you think so many of these Pride guys are coming to the UFC and just getting owned in a lot of fights? And why was your transition so clean when you came from PANCRASE to the UFC? What's the secret Bas?

BR: You know, I like space. I get really uncomfortable in small spaces. So when I first stepped into the UFC ring, I was like, "Holy Motown man," it was so much bigger than I thought, and although it's shaped as an octagon, it pretty much feels like a circle when you're fighting in it There really are no useable corners. Yeah there are corners, but not big enough to use like you would with a corner in a boxing or wrestling ring. I think the problem guys from Pride have had is that they can't lock someone up in the corners and deliver those super big blows like Mirko likes to do. In a cage you just keep circling around-and-around. So at least with a guy like Mirko, he can't holdup in a corner and deliver those devastating blows he usually does. Pride guys are really going to have to adapt and change their game plan if they want to succeed in the UFC. They have to figure out how they're going to lock guys up but through a different approach. Yeah, training against the change is big too, but they have to figure out how to not rely on those big corners you get in the ring. I personally can lock a guy up against a flat wall. You have to stand straight-on with a guy, cuz if you don't, he'll just slip out the opposite side you're pushing him against. In a ring the guy has no where to run to in the corner. In a cage, he just runs out the opposite way. And the thing is, when you're standing square to a guy, your power shots from both sides are going to be so powerful. They haven't realized yet that fighting square in the cage is what needs to be done. If you keep just trying to set up a left over-and-over, it's too easy in a cage to just keep circling and avoiding that left shot.

PT: What do you think about their cardio too? I mean, Pride had those long ten minute first rounds, a rest and then a five minute round to close it out. The UFC is a much faster brand of fighting, mostly for what you said about not having those corners to slow down in and setup. It's constant transitioning and moving cuz you are pretty much fighting in that circle/octagon. Plus the UFC has either three or five, five minute rounds. If you're a runner, you're gonna train differently for 100m and say a marathon. Cuz both CroCop and Shogun looked like they'd definitely just run a marathon when they came out in their recent second and third rounds.

BR: You know what man that makes a lot of sense too.

PT: Well we'll letcha use that then.

BR: Ha, ok, thanks. Now I got another one! But I definitely think you're onto something. I think maybe that deep down, these guys are coming in and thinking that a five minute first round versus the ten minute first round they're used to is gonna be easy. Although I'm not calling anyone out on it, it definitely makes sense. In a ten minute first round, you really have to pace yourself and fight a lot more strategical. In the UFC, fights are usually a little more fast paced and you gotta go balls out a lot more than if you were in Pride. There is no going slow in the UFC. Yeah, it's a different kind of cardio for sure.

PT: You've seen so much fighting in so many different countries and so many different organizations. So what's your take on the quality of fighting in today's game? Guys used to train in specific disciplines since they were real young. They'd have trained for like 15 plus years before even fighting. Now you have fighters that train for a year in BJJ, maybe spend a bit of time boxing and now they're fighting in some show after only a bit of real MMA training. What's your opinion of the quality of the sport right now?

BR: You know, I think the quality of fighting is right up there. Look at it this way. You have a guy like Chuck Liddell who wins all his fights with striking, never submits a guy. Then you have someone like Tito Ortiz, who always wants to take you down. Guys that fight now will try and fight you using their strength. It happens in almost every fight now. I think you have some really great fighters right now, but I'm not sure guys are training enough for those situations that they don't want to be in. That's why I like a guy like BJ Penn so much. He can finish a guy in any situation. He can stand with a guy. He can submit you on the ground. The best fighters today are the ones that can adapt to any situation in a fight. Most guys now win fights the same way over-and-over. They're winning by KO or submission, never one and then the other. There aren't a lot of guys that win by both a lot. I like a guy that is winning fights in any situation. I want to see arm bars, knee bars, guillotine chokes, outside heel hooks, inside heel hooks, triangle chokes, reversals and then it's the same with the knockouts too. It want to see knees to the body, high kicks to the face, knees to the face, right straights to the body, low kicks and so on. That's what a true martial artist does. Jon Fitch is another guy that's really impressed me with his game on the ground and standing. That guy is all over the place! There's a few in the sport that have spent the time to allow them to fight in any situation, but not many.

PT: Right now you're doing a lot of work with the IFL. The main knock people have against the IFL is that they don't dig the team concept. What's your take on fighting within a "team" in MMA and is it beneficial for the individual fighter?

BR: I wish they had this concept when I was competing. You have to understand that these guys train as a team. So if you're holding up the team by being late all the time, you're affecting the entire team. It teaches, especially the younger fighters, a sense of responsibility when it comes to training. Although your entire team is made up of mixed martial artists, obviously each guy is gonna have strengths in different areas. Guys are learning so much from one another in training like never before. Guys are passing on information that they'd never want to give up before cuz they didn't want anyone to know their secrets. These guys are becoming more well rounded and the evidence is in the ring. The team concept is creating better more responsible fighters and I only see that as a positive.

PT: What's the story about you almost getting killed by a cab in Japan?

BR: Yeah, that was a crazy thing. It was after a Pride show. We went out to the bars like always, but the funny thing is, this was like the first time I didn't want to get really drunk. After like three or four beers, I knew where my night was headed, so I was ready to pack it in. No one wanted me to leave, but I kinda snuck out with a few other guys. After like ten years of going to Japan, I really shoulda known that they drive on the opposite side of the road. So anyways, long story short, I step onto the road, and hey, I wasn't drunk, so don't think this is cuz I was walking around drunk, but I step onto the road and all I hear is screeeeeeeeeeeeeeech! It was a cab slamming on his breaks but still coming really fast at me. I knew there was no time to jump to the side, so I thought I'd better jump up and the cab nailed the bottom of my legs and sent me flying straight over the car and crashing down on the road. They tell me I did two complete summersaults in the air before I hit the ground. I landed straight on my back. Everyone jumped on me to see if I was alright, but I told everyone to step back so that I could check myself. I checked myself out, didn't have any internal damage and I guess I was ok. The only thing missing was a big chunk of meat outta my hip. Know I never forget what side of the road they drive on in Japan.

PT: I hear a lot of the post Pride stories were as legendary as some of the fights in the ring. What else you got for us?

BR: There was this one time, I was at the bar with a bunch of fighters and noticed these big American guys with Navy Seals shirts on beating up and bullying some Japanese people. I don't think for a second these guys were real Navy Seals. I'm there with Ken Shamrock, Guy Mezger and a bunch of other fighters and point out these assholes to them. So I go over and stand with my head down right in the middle of where they were pushing people around. Sure enough they push me to the side and tell me to get the fuck out of here. I tell them to relax but they all get in my face and want a piece of me. So I ask them to go outside and they follow. Mezger warns these idiots that we're all professional fighters and that they probably picked the biggest psycho of the group, but they wanted to go anyways. So I beat the hell out of all three of them, but there was this one guy that just kept coming at me. I'd arm bar him, he'd be saying he was done, I'd let him go and he'd jump on me right away. I'd be asking for requests of how they wanted me to beat this guy and I'd do it. But this idiot just keeps attacking me every time I let him go after he was screaming like a pussy. Finally I'd had enough of this guy and choked him out cold. We took his pants off and left him lying naked in the street.

PT: And we heard that you and Paul Varelans had a pretty fun night one time too?

BR: Yeah, yeah. We were out at a bar one night and both pretty drunk and then all of a sudden Paul comes up from behind me and starts biting my back!

PT: Like a love bite?

BR: Yeah, I don't think so. He bit me so hard he was piercing my skin. So I say, "Hey Paul, you're really hurting me man," and he just kept laughing it off and kept biting me. He pretty much had me in a bear hug so I threw him in this reverse figure four leg lock. There was this window in front of me, and hey I was drunk, so I through him through the window right outta the bar. He got a couple stitches, I had holes in my back from his teeth, but we're still buddies.

PT: That kinda brings us back to you working bars as a bouncer and dealing with guys like this for a living. What do you think is a more dangerous profession, fighting or bouncing?

BR: Nowadays it's definitely a bouncer. Back when I was a bouncer, you fought with your hands, but now it's always knives and guns. The freaky stuff doesn't happen in a ring. The real freaky stuff happens when you're on the street fighting a guy and his buddy comes behind you and stabs you in the back.

PT: So did you handout any real beatings back in those days?

BR: You know, I was in a lot of fights, but I tried to avoid them if I could. Yeah I was hired as a bouncer cuz I was a decent fighter, but the other reason I was hired was because I was very good dealing with people. When I was a bouncer I would shake everyone's hand and make sure they knew me and thought I was a cool guy. I knew all the people that came into the bar. So if a fight broke out, I'd just go over, reason with these guys and tell them to either take it outside or sit down and we'd all have a beer. A lot of the time we ended up having beers.

Note: All of a sudden Bas' bijon poodle comes over and is lookin' for a fight from Bas.

BR (talking to his dog): Ah, you think you're tough huh? Come on then! She thinks she can take on any man. Ah, now she's on her back and thinks she's pretty. Oh yeah, you're so pretty (Bas is giving her a rub down, but refused to do the same to me when I asked for a massage).

BR: Everyone that sees my dog says, "Hey what's up with that. I thought you woulda had a pit-bull?" Pit-bulls are for pussies that need protection or are making up for something else. Real men don't need a pit-bull to show off how tough they think they are.

PT: So big dogs means small…

BR: Yeah, I think so.

PT: Ok, let's bring this back to fighting, think we might be crossing some barriers soon. Who do you think is the greatest ever in the sport?

BR: That's a hard one man (note: he's talking about fighting, so get your mind our of the gutter). It's too tough to compare guys cuz the sport has changed so much and guys have fought in so many different organizations. Right now though, for this era, I think Fedor is the best. He might not be competing much lately, but to me he's still the best. The best ever is still to come though. Guys don't go to just a thai boxing gym or BJJ gym, they go to an MMA gym which has everyone in one package. Guys are so ahead of the game versus 15 years ago that I truly believe the best is yet to come. Ask me again in ten years or so. I like guys that can do everything. Those are the ones that would be at the top of my list.

PT: I know you're training with Kimbo Slice pretty heavily right now. And I also know that guys like Bob Sapp have impressed you in the past. What is it that you see in non-MMA athletes that makes you think they'll transition well to MMA? For example, how do you see Brock Lesnar doing in most likely the UFC?

BR: I think any top athlete that has been one of the top guys in their game and can fight through everything in front of them to get to that point has a chance of doing well in MMA. It's the guys that spend extra time training their asses off or practicing hours longer after everyone's gone home that can do well in MMA, or any sport that they choose. That's what makes them better than anyone else in any sport they choose. And MMA needs that same kind of attitude if you want to succeed.

I said I was impressed by Sapp at the time when he fought Nogueira. He trained for six months and looked great. That fight against Nogueira was a real great fight. The problem with Sapp was that he was in high demand for K1 and pro wrestling and those other areas just asked way too much from him. You need that focus if you want to succeed at MMA or anything else. You can't shift your focus like Sapp did. Sapp asked me to help him train for a fight one time. I came to Japan for ten days and Sapp trained all of one-and-a-half days in those ten days I was there. He was doing interviews all day long. I sad, "Bob, you are about to face Mirko CroCop! While you are doing interviews, Mirko is training. Mirko wants to take your head off!" Bob told me that he had to do all these interviews. I told him that he had to train to fight. Put those interviews to the side. You don't have to do everything people tell you. Support the company you work for, that's cool, but you have a job to do before doing interviews all week. Take one day, do your interviews, and that's it. Bob lost his focus. He was doing too much media stuff, had too many projects on the go and that's why he lost. Those six months he trained for Nogueira, he looked amazing. He was focused and it showed. Hey, no knock on Bob, he made a ton of money doing his projects, but I just think if he had trained like he did in those six months, he'd be a huge problem for anyone in any fight.

Brock Lesnar is in the same boat right now. He is a great wrestler. He seems focused and has no distractions yet. He could be really good. He has the size, the focus and some skills. If he keeps his head in it, he could be great.

Kimbo is kinda the same too. He comes from street fighting but is now focused 100% on MMA fighting. This guys is just so determined. He's away from his family while training, and believe me, he loves his family. But he takes five or six weeks and trains to the level that not even I ever did anytime in my career. All this guy does is trains. He has no distractions. If he can maintain this unbelievable focus, I see really good things happening for Kimbo in MMA. He listens to every little detail and makes sure he does it right.

PT: A lot of people aren't buying into Kimbo though. They look at him and only see an ex-con who fought on the street for money. When Kimbo first came to you to train, how willing were you to take him on?

BR: Ah, I heard all the stories of him being a street thug and all that stuff and I'll tell you a story about one of the first times we met. I have two little daughters. They would never walk up to anyone. They are very shy. They are two really cute little girls that won't even look at a stranger. But the first time they saw Kimbo, they walked right over to him and started high-fiving him! This never happens in history with them, ever. To me, they recognized Kimbo's good heart and looked past everything else. Kimbo is a standup guy. He's a family man and my daughters picked up on that.

PT: Do you think Tank Abbott, who Kimbo's dancin' with later this month, realizes how hard Kimbo's been training for this one? Tanks always been known for a guy that will train, but makes sure he has a good time too. It's no secret that Tank likes to put a few back before and after his fights.

BR: I think it's gonna be a rude awakening for him. The only way Tank wins this fight is with a lucky punch. If Kimbo fights the way he's trained, there is no way Tank will win this one. All the drinking and all that other stuff Tank's done in the past, all I can say, is look at his record. He has like one win in his last eight fights, and ummm, that's not really a good record. Drinking and partying don't mix with training and I think Tank's record is proof of that. On the other hand, I really admire Tank too. If Tank was offered a fight tomorrow against Fedor, so on one day's notice, he'd take it every time. That takes a lotta balls. He'll fight anyone anytime. If only Tank had spent more time training and less time partying, he coulda been really great. Had he spent like four years and trained his ass off, the skies the limit for a guy like him. You can always party after those four years. The parties aren't going anywhere. I guess he doesn't see it the way I do.

PT: Is there one guy that you've trained over the years whose work ethic has impressed you more than anyone else's?

BR: You know, I expect the same from every fighter. Everyone that trains with me gives the exact same effort, if not, there's the door (note: picture Bas pointing to a door and saying, "there's the door", unless he's got some sorta secret door at his place that we missed out on). If we're training and you come up to me and say you don't think you can train the next day, get out of my gym, cuz I don't want you back. You train my way or you're out. I'm the nicest guy, but do not weasel you're way out of any training or you're not worth my time. I'll get rid of you right away. I don't deal with fighters that don't give 100%.

PT: Obviously a guy that jumps out that you've trained but had some personal and even drug related issues was Mark Kerr. How good could Mark have been had he not had all those distractions outside of MMA?

BR: He could have been one of the best I think. When Mark focused and trained exclusively with me, he never lost a fight. He was always in peak shape and always doing good. When he came back recently and trained a bit with me leading up to that IFL fight, his striking was gone. Everything I told him was gone. He would come to training late, which I absolutely hate. I told him right away, "Listen. You come late one more time I'm charging you $250 every time you're late. We're training with a team right now and you're hurting this team!" It's a very simple thing with me, you either put in the time and effort or you don't. There's no in-between. I want to make my guys champions, every single one of them. I want to see them succeed. If you're not ready to do the same thing, get out!

That's another thing that makes fighters great. You could be the most physically fit athlete on the planet, but if you're not willing to do whatever it takes to be a champion, you're wasting your time. This one guy comes up to me one time and is like, "Oh Bas. I used to train with Peter Aerts when I was 14. Can you imagine if I kept training like him how good I'd be? I could have been a world champion." I looked at him and said, "Are you a fucking moron? It was that moment that you realized that the training was too hard for you and you quit that you made sure you'd never be a champion!" Just doing the same training as a champion doesn't make you a champion. You have to want it and I'm not sure Mark Kerr wanted it enough. You have to stay focused in MMA. You can't do anything half-assed. If one of my guys tells me he's tired, I tell him, "You're opponent right now is doing two extra rounds while you just gave up." You have to always think "what if"? What if I just stopped training and my opponent plans on going for another two hours? Can I do it? Well then go do it! That's what makes a champion.

PT: So most of what you're talking about is a fighter's mental state. Most people look at MMA and think it's all physical. What percentage of the sport is mental and what percentage is physical?

BR: 90 mental and 10 physical. Physical is easy. Really anyone can learn the physical side. The mental aspect is the most important thing. And that brings me to the dojo fighters. These guys that say I just submitted Tito Oritz in training, or whoever, but have never really competed outside of their dojo or outside of training. The difference between fighting in a dojo and fighting in a ring, with your family and friends watching, with TV cameras all over the place, with fans screaming at you is what makes the difference. How can you deal with those pressures outside of the nice little environment you have in your own dojo. You have to force yourself to control those aspects, not physically, but mentally. If you can't do that, you are going to lose every time.

And that brings me to another subject. If you need steroids to overcome any aspect of training or fighting, you are a loser! Fighting is mental, it's not physical. If you can't deal with that, find a different profession. If you need to juice to overcome that, get out! It's about who can compete under the stress that fighting in front of everything I mentioned above brings with it. It's about who's got the biggest kahonas, not who's got the biggest muscles. It's an insecurity they have and they make up for it with steroids. They know they aren't good enough technically and mentally, so they think they'll scare someone with the size of their muscles. Deep down inside, they're insecure and know they can't hang in this sport.

Everyone right now is spitting on Chuck Liddell for losing his last two fights. They all wanna say he looked bad. But you know what, he hung in there. People don't realize how difficult it is to come back after taking a knockout. Everyone turns on you when you lose. Although Chuck lost to Keith Jardine, he got back in there really quick after the Rampage fight. You see all the damage Jardine took in those first three minutes, and then Jardine hit him, and Chuck kinda lost control. It's all mental. He didn't want to get knocked out again and that dictated how he fought the rest of that fight. People don't realize how mental this sport actually is.

The Japanese respect the mental toughness of a fighter more than anyone else and I love that. You may have lost by knockout in your last fight, but if you come back and keep fighting no matter if you win or lose, they will respect you for that. They will wait in the longest line they have to to get your autograph after the show. That's why they love a guy like Sakuraba. He gives everything he has, win or lose, and they love that.

How many great fights did Chuck Liddell give us? A lot! And now he has one-and-a-half bad fights and the UFC fans turn on him. I hate to see that. I think it is very wrong.

PT: So how many guys in MMA right now aren't mentally tough enough to be competing?

BR: I think at least 50% of fighters aren't mentally tough enough to be fighting professionally. And they know it. They know they have no business fighting. These are the guys that walk around with t-shirts on that say, "I am a mixed martial artist" or "We don't break boards we break bones" or "Step into my office" and they have a ring on their t-shirt. If you're a good fighter, you don't need to get that kind of attention. The fans know you because they know you are a good fighter. It's the guys that wear all this stuff that 95% of the time or more, will never be a champion of anything. They'll be a champion t-shirt wearer. Let's just say, I've never seen Chuck Liddell with a shirt on like that. These guys like to walk around with their tank tops on. They like to act all tough outside of the ring. And to make sure people know they are a MMA fighter, they need to wear the t-shirt too. Cuz they will never be recognized as a real MMA fighter otherwise. They're usually the same guys juicing too. They want people to look at their big muscles, cuz there's nothing else to look at when they're in the ring.

PT: Have you ever had an issue with steroids in your own gym?

BR: I've always been a big anti-steroid guy and I let my fighters know right away. If I see any steroids around, you're out. You know, when Mark Kerr came to train with me, I put him on the weight scale and he came up 230 lbs. I told him, if you gain one pound, you're out. He asked why and I tell him, that with me, it's impossible to gain weight. With me, we do so much conditioning, technique and stamina training, that it is absolutely impossible to gain any weight. I stress condition above anything else. If you go into a five round fight and know that if the fight goes the distance and you can handle it no problem, then you're already ahead of the game and don't have to worry about that. It's a huge relief for a fighter to know you're prepared for anything. This is what I said to Kerr right away. I knew how he looked. I didn't ask if he juiced or not, but I knew that if he worked with me it'd be impossible to gain weight unless he was juicing. And he never gained a pound when he worked with me.

PT: What do you think about the athletic commissions fining and suspending guys that are getting busted for weed in their system?

BR: I think Nick Diaz should have gotten a medal after he beat Gomi, not have his decision reversed. He should have gotten some kinda of bonus. Do you know how difficult it would have been to compete with weed? To beat Gomi the way he did with that unbelievable gogoplata with weed in his system, I mean come on man, this guy deserves some sort of special medal. I don't like how the athletic commission looks at weed. There is no way it allows you to take more punishment, come on! The only concern I would have is what your mental state would be going into a fight. If you're going into a fight and could potentially be stoned, you could do some serious damage to yourself if you're not 100% mentally in the ring. The athletic commission should come out and say they are worried about a fighter's well being, not finding ways to take wins away from guys. I think their approach is all wrong. It's the same with steroids. They are making steroids and weed sound like it is an advantage. We know that is not true in this sport. Steroids might give an advantage for the first two minutes of a fight, but that's about it. These guys are doing serious damage to their bodies and that should be our concern. It shouldn't be a punishment thing. It should be a safety thing. And that's where I think the athletic commission is doing things wrong.

PT: How much weight training can someone expect if they train with Bas?

BR: None! This is fighting, not a weightlifting event. I'd rather take that time guys spend lifting weights and spending it training in fighting, cuz that's what is actually gonna help you in a fight. Bench pressing, however much weight, is gonna do shit for you when you get kicked in the head. Now if a guy wants to train with me and I can see he just physically is really weak, well then I do a lot of work with kettle bells and maybe pushups, but incorporate that into the actual workout. They may be fighting and then I'll yell out, "Everbuddy down," and from there they'll do pushups or grab a kettle bell, but then back to sparring right away. I don't waste time doing a ton of weight training. And the only muscles I might train are the ones they will actually use in a fight. Why are fighters doing all these wide grip pull-downs when you're never gonna need that in a fight. I'd rather my guys do good pushups, on their fists, elbows in and right down to the floor. You don't punch with your chest muscles, you punch with you triceps. You punch with that same motion you do with your elbows inside doing pushups. Bottom line, everything I do in power training, is going to be a muscle you'll use in fighting.

PT: That term MMA seems to get tossed around pretty loosely these days, especially in the US. What's your definition of a mixed martial artist?

BR: A mixed martial artist is a fighter, who can take someone wherever a fight goes. If it goes to the ground, he can submit him and if it stays standing he can knock him out. A real mixed martial artist sees mistakes in a fighter's game and knows how to react and capitalize on it.

PT: Another guy you've trained is Kevin James. How tough an MMA fighter is Kevin James?

BR: Kevin James is a stud. I can have him punching focus mitts for two minutes, and anyone that watches him will go, "holy fuck". He hits so hard you wouldn't believe it. He's got good technique too. I'm impressed with him. If he is taking it easy a bit, all I have to do is tell him to get the fuck back up, and he does it no questions asked. It was no publicity stunt when he was in my corner for my last fight against Ruben Villareal. He was there for every workout for me. He had a busy schedule but was there two times a day at the dojo pushing me every step of the way. When I was tired and didn't think I could go any further, Kevin was there always pushing me to get in one more round. He is a great guy to have in your corner.

PT: Whose funnier, you or Kevin?

BR: I think we have totally different comedic approaches. I like to shock people and get a laugh, and he's just a funny guy by nature. Sometimes I'll crack a joke and start laughing and I just can't stop. It's almost like I'm stoned and can't stop laughing about something stupid. People will look over at Kevin and ask what they hell's up with me and Kevin just says, "He's on planet Bas." Kevin's on all the time though. It's not an act with this guy. Everything that he says is funny.

PT: So now I know Bas you have this sick documentary coming out called POTENT. What are we gonna see from what a lot of people are already saying is the best MMA documentary ever?

BR: I think this movie is great because it speaks to fighters but also to people that have very little knowledge about mixed martial arts. This is the perfect movie to watch for those people that say mixed martial arts is a brutal sport and is just two guys beating the hell outta each other. With POTENT we went all over the world and talked to some of the best coaches, trainers and fighters and asked them the same things. And what you realize is that although there are all these different styles of fighting, everyone's approach is very similar and way deeper than what most people realize. You listen to all these experts in MMA and realize that although what they are saying is a little different, the end result of what mixed martial arts means to them, is always the same. They show why MMA is more than just throwing a guy to the matt and beating the crap out of him. They talk about technique and why MMA is more about throwing a punch and more about reading what another person is doing and countering with the absolute best attack you've spent years perfecting. MMA is a language that everyone speaks no matter where you come from. And we talk to all these people.

PT: Hopefully POTENT kills a lot of the misconceptions so many in the mainstream have against MMA. What's that one misconception that kills you every time you hear it?

BR: "That's that stuff where they throw each other on the ground and then try and hit each other," or my personal fave, "That's that thing with Royce Gracie, right?" Come on man, that's like 14 years ago. It's a whole different ball game right now. I can't stand people that have never watched a show, but complain about it. I hate those people that buy a PPV, but will say that it's brutal and savage. Why waste 40 or 50 bucks on something you're just gonna complain about? I don't get it? If I'm flicking the channel and I see some guy throwing darts, it's not my cup of tea, so I go to something else. I don't watch it for a couple hours and then start saying, "I think it's stupid to drink beer and throw darts," if I don't like it. I don't like it, so I don't bother with it. If you don't like it, don't watch it, but don't say it's barbaric if you haven't even watch a fight.

You know, everyone respects the Olympics. No one has a problem with the sports that take place in the Olympics, right? So in MMA we use the kicks from taekwondo. We use the punching from boxing. We obviously use the wrestling from wrestling. And we use the throws and submissions from judo. All we've done in MMA is taken all these aspects from forms of combat people respect and created a more complete form of combat. When I explain it like that to people, there's usually very little they can say. If you respect the athletes that represent those forms of combat, you have to respect an MMA fighter who trains just as hard and as much, but is really training in all four of those disciplines at the same time. Sounds pretty impressive to me.

PT: With bad press still popping up in cities and countries that are new to the sport, for example there was a ton of bad press when the UFC was in London recently, how many years away are we from seeing worldwide acceptance of MMA?

BR: Well it can't be tomorrow. The problem right now is that media is taking the wrong turn here. The media doesn't get high numbers with positive press, but they get huge numbers with negative press. That's why the show gruesome pictures from the war. They show the OJ Simpson story even though there's no story really there. Who really gives a shit about OJ Simpson anymore? Really! He was a guy that probably killed two people a number of years ago. Why is this guy still getting front page press? But it's negative and it sells papers. Until we get more journalists who will take the time to educate themselves in MMA and realize it's not this brutal cock fighting thing that everyone else seems to want to call it, then we'll continue getting a bad rap. And it doesn't help when some fighters still walk around saying stupid shit like, "I like to smash skulls and break bones," because that image is just feeding the fire and it looks bad. When you hear some juiced up muscle head saying he likes to break people's spleens on a PPV, it's tough for that image to change. Although the media coverage has been bad over the years, sometimes we have to look at ourselves too and see how we present the sport at all levels. I'm hoping people new to the sport see POTENT and realize that MMA is so much more than breaking bones. I hope POTENT educates people and shows people what MMA is really about.

PT: And why POTENT? What's behind the name?

BR: You know, it just made sense. It's a powerful word. I guess we could have called it something like Skull Crushers or Caged Animals, but that's just feeding that negative media image. MMA is really a beautiful thing. Now we just have to get everyone to see that.

Check out www.potentthemovie.com for more on Bas' new documentary and check back later this month for our one-on-one with Bas' newest student, Kimbo Slice.